In the latest episode of the I Witness Podcast, Kelly Jo dives deep with CJ Milacci into a compelling dialogue about faith, life challenges, and the transformative power of community.
Their candid conversation navigates CJ’s unique life experiences from the Disney college program to her spiritual immersion in Italy, shedding light on the significant role of faith in shaping her responses to life’s twists and turns.
A dark time had CJ questioning her purpose. She discusses how she battled loneliness and a loss of direction that caused her to drop to her knees.
Listen to Part 1 here
IW EP008 CJ Milacci Part 1
Listen to Part 2 here
Meet CJ Milacci
CJ writes stories for teens and young adults with heart-pounding action and hope. As a referee, she’s always relearning the hard lesson that it’s impossible to make everyone happy, and she’s discovered that stories can be found anywhere, even on a lacrosse field. She’s passionate about crafting stories of good overcoming evil, finding hope amid seemingly hopeless circumstances, and true acceptance.
CJ’s story touches on many different themes, such as overcoming isolation, the reality of faith in dark times, and being honest with God during life’s greatest challenges. Kelly and CJ offer insights into the blend of personal journeys.
The top takeaways that really encompass the themes of the podcast discussion between Kelly and CJ are:
Incorporating Faith into Everyday Challenges: Both Kelly and CJ discuss how their faith has been a guiding force in their lives. Whether it’s confronting isolation or handling the life challenges of unfamiliar emotions, CJ Milacci shares how faith plays a pivotal role in shaping her decisions. Their experiences emphasize the significance of faith in everyday life, not just during profound spiritual moments.
Community and Connection: The podcast highlights the importance of a religious community and the human need for connection. CJ’s contrasting experiences at Disney College and in Italy underline the significance of spiritual fellowship. Fellowship grounds and broadens experiences.
Empathy and Vulnerability: CJ’s interactions with young people from various backgrounds showcase the need for understanding and empathy. CJ discusses how the differences in upbringing and experiences of others shed light on the power of genuine connection.
God’s Guidance through Life Transitions: Kelly and CJ touch upon surrendering to God’s plan, even during life’s challenges. CJ’s shift from direct youth ministry to writing emphasizes God’s role in guiding individuals through various phases of life. CJ’s personal challenges have made a broader impact, and the same can happen for us.
Addressing Young Adult Issues: CJ gives a raw account of the issues facing young adults today, many fearing judgment and being shunned by the church if they share what’s truly on their hearts.
Struggling With Doubts: CJ shares how most of us struggle with doubt and question God. Thus, the enemy tries to isolate us, but she encourages us to reach out and talk about what’s happening in our lives. It’s okay to tell our problems to God, no matter how awful.
You’re not alone.
Bible Verses for Encouragement
Galatians 3:28, NKJV: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.”
Luke 12:7: “But the very hairs on your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.”
Psalms 139:14: “I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well.”
2 Corinthians 12:9: “And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”
Resources for You
Check out CJ Milacci’s two-time, award-winning book Recruit of Talionis.
“Forget where you came from. Forget the life you knew. You are now recruits of Talionis!”
America has fallen.
Seventeen-year-old Bria Averton grew up in a small town of survivors near the ruins of Portland, Maine. It’s all she’s ever known — until she’s kidnapped along with hundreds of other teens and brought to the city of Talionis. A city no one knew existed.
The soldiers tell them the intense trainings are for the good of the survivors, and Bria resists being forced into a new life as a recruited soldier. But she soon finds the dangers in the city are greater than she imagined.
Escape is impossible, and Bria fears drowning in the evil of the city… and the guilt from her own past. But can she find hope, even here?
In the latest episode of the I Witness Podcast, Kelly Jo dives deep with CJ Milacci into a compelling dialogue about faith, life challenges, and the transformative power of community.
Their candid conversation navigates CJ’s unique life experiences from the Disney college program to her spiritual immersion in Italy, shedding light on the significant role of faith in shaping her responses to life’s twists and turns.
A dark time had CJ questioning her purpose. She discusses how she battled loneliness and a loss of direction that caused her to drop to her knees.
Listen to Part 1 here
IW EP008 CJ Milacci Part 1
Meet CJ Milacci
CJ writes stories for teens and young adults with heart-pounding action and hope. As a referee, she’s always relearning the hard lesson that it’s impossible to make everyone happy, and she’s discovered that stories can be found anywhere, even on a lacrosse field. She’s passionate about crafting stories of good overcoming evil, finding hope amid seemingly hopeless circumstances, and true acceptance.
CJ’s story touches on many different themes, such as overcoming isolation, the reality of faith in dark times, and being honest with God during life’s greatest challenges. Kelly and CJ offer insights into the blend of personal journeys.
The top takeaways that really encompass the themes of the podcast discussion between Kelly and CJ are:
Incorporating Faith into Everyday Challenges: Both Kelly and CJ discuss how their faith has been a guiding force in their lives. Whether it’s confronting isolation or handling the life challenges of unfamiliar emotions, CJ Milacci shares how faith plays a pivotal role in shaping her decisions. Their experiences emphasize the significance of faith in everyday life, not just during profound spiritual moments.
Community and Connection: The podcast highlights the importance of a religious community and the human need for connection. CJ’s contrasting experiences at Disney College and in Italy underline the significance of spiritual fellowship. Fellowship grounds and broadens experiences.
Empathy and Vulnerability: CJ’s interactions with young people from various backgrounds showcase the need for understanding and empathy. CJ discusses how the differences in upbringing and experiences of others shed light on the power of genuine connection.
God’s Guidance through Life Transitions: Kelly and CJ touch upon surrendering to God’s plan, even during life’s challenges. CJ’s shift from direct youth ministry to writing emphasizes God’s role in guiding individuals through various phases of life. CJ’s personal challenges have made a broader impact, and the same can happen for us.
Addressing Young Adult Issues: CJ gives a raw account of the issues facing young adults today, many fearing judgment and being shunned by the church if they share what’s truly on their hearts.
Listen to Part 2 here
IW EP008 CJ Milacci Part 2
Bible Verses for Encouragement
Galatians 3:28, NKJV: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.”
Resources for You
Check out CJ Milacci’s two-time, award-winning book Recruit of Talionis.
“Forget where you came from. Forget the life you knew. You are now recruits of Talionis!”
America has fallen.
Seventeen-year-old Bria Averton grew up in a small town of survivors near the ruins of Portland, Maine. It’s all she’s ever known — until she’s kidnapped along with hundreds of other teens and brought to the city of Talionis. A city no one knew existed.
The soldiers tell them the intense trainings are for the good of the survivors, and Bria resists being forced into a new life as a recruited soldier. But she soon finds the dangers in the city are greater than she imagined.
Escape is impossible, and Bria fears drowning in the evil of the city… and the guilt from her own past. But can she find hope, even here?
This episode is part 2 of the interview with Lisa Appelo. Lisa unexpectedly lost her husband, and she takes us through how God spoke to her on her grief journey with her seven children. She shares resources and encouragement that helped her along the way and could help other women struggling with the pain of shattering loss.
Lisa Appelo inspires women to deepen faith in life’s storms and is an ECPA bestselling author. A former litigating attorney, Lisa is passionate about rich Bible teaching. Lisa founded a team of writers at HopeinGrief.com and currently serves on the executive team for Compel with Proverbs 31 Ministries. Her work has been featured at Life Today, Insight for Living, and many more. As a single mom of seven, Lisa’s days are filled with parenting ministry and long walks to justify lots of dark chocolate.
Lisa: It is for sure too hard for us. We were not made for death, divorce, disease, or devastation like this. We weren’t made for it. So when these things happen, it does overwhelm us. That old saying that God won’t give you more than you can handle. That’s just not true.
We can absolutely find ourselves in circumstances that are too hard for us.
I remember writing at the top of my journal every day for well over a year,
THIS IS TOO HARD. I CANNOT DO THIS.
All caps, bold, underlined. That was the reality of my heart. I’m sure people looked at me and thought, you’re so strong.
But I knew what was going on inside. I knew the war raging in my thoughts and my emotions and could feel the enemy. I felt like the enemy was trying to get his toe into our family and just pull it apart.
Listen, this was not Lisa who had everything put together and was doing all the right things. This was Lisa who was desperate for the Lord.
Listen to God speaking and nudging you
Sometimes I think we can feel that nudge to meet with the Lord, open the word, meet with him in prayer, maybe read a devotion or read the Bible, and we think it’s guilt. You think God is guilting us like, “You haven’t met with me. You’re so bad.”
But it’s not. It’s wooing us like somebody who loves us, holding out their hands and saying, “I have everything you need. Come to me.”
It makes me weep. Because I remember … I remember those days when I just was desperate. And he says, “Come to me.”
So I think for the woman listening to this right now and saying, “I’ve stayed away from God, and I haven’t opened the word. I am mad,” to just listen to that nudge. Open it and give God a chance to meet you where you are.
It won’t look all tidy, and everything won’t be wrapped up with the bow that first day. God will meet you where you are. He will give you hope and encourage you. He will remind you how much he loves you and remind you of his promises and faithfulness, and that’s how we do life.
We’re not promised that life will be easy. But we’re promised that God will be faithful.
You are not alone, life is messy for all of us
Kelly: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that, Lisa. I think that is so encouraging that it won’t be easy. We know that we’re not promised that. It’s going to be hard, and it’s going to be messy.
A lot of women take comfort in knowing that other women are going through it too, and it’s messy and hard for them too. But there is a way to come through it.
Like you said, listening to that nudge, I’ve had many women reach out to me who don’t think they hear God’s voice. They’re not sure if it’s him.
They question it a lot, but I think a lot of times it is not necessarily questioning him, but more questioning themselves. I love that you said, just listen to that nudge because it is there. It’s like a soft, still voice. Do you feel like it was like that with you? Like he just kept pulling you?
How does God speak to us?
Lisa: God speaks to us in his word, so we can be sure that we can open up the word and see him speaking to us. I mean, not audibly, like how Moses heard or Paul heard, but he speaks to us through scripture.
Somehow a hundred women could read the same passage. God applies it to each of us personally not differently, not in opposition to each other. Still, God will apply it personally to us because scripture’s alive. I would say open up scripture. You don’t even need a devotional. Devotionals are awesome, but start the book of John. Just see who Jesus is and what he has to say to you.
Kelly: What a wonderful book to start in. I read John a lot too. I also really like Matthew. For some reason, I’m so drawn to Matthew when reading about Jesus and I usually read the New King James version. But I like going through different versions to see how he’s speaking to you.
But yes, what a wonderful encouragement. So this happened years ago, but it never fully goes away. Right? You always have this part, and time just kind of moves you past it. You just learn to live with it, I feel like right?
Is that how it is with you? Is that how it feels? The wound is not quite as open, but it’s still there, and you learn to manage it.
But was there anybody that inspired you during that time or your journey that you could look up to or helped guide you? Did anybody walk alongside you?
Does the grief ever get better?
Lisa: Well, a couple things come to mind. One is, yes, grief does lessen and soften if we do the hard work of grief. Time is not a natural healer it’s neutral. It’s what we do with that time. So there are definitely ways that we process grief and loss over and over and over.
It’s never just a one-and-done thing, but it does lessen and soften. Most days I would say I’m very much used to this pace of life and love life.
But we miss Dan at every milestone and at every dinner that we have together. He will always be missed.
I didn’t know any other young widow I could walk with, but I had friends that loved on me. That’s such a lesson to us because sometimes we think, well, I don’t understand what she’s walking through. I’ve never lost a child, or I’ve never been through a divorce, or I’ve never had cancer. So we don’t think that we are capable of really ministering to that person.
God speaks through the love of people, too
But really, it’s just loving that person in it. It’s just loving them and showing up. That’s the big thing. We don’t have to have magic words.
We can’t fix the problem, so we can just let ourselves off the hook of having to fix the problem. But just showing up, being present, reminding, sending a text, having coffee, and listening to their heart. There are so many ways we can love somebody in it, which was huge for me.
There’s somebody who is no longer living but has always been a heroine for me is Elizabeth Elliot. Her writing is just so good. She recently came out with a book after her death, but they put it together, called Suffering is Never for Nothing. She knew suffering more than just her two husbands who passed away. She’s two times a widow, but she had other losses in her life. So, her writing and her steady trust has been a huge encouragement.
We have encouragement in God speaking through other people
Kelly: Wow. That is so amazing that you just said Elizabeth Elliot right now. Because I can’t even tell you. I was just looking up her story. So It’s just funny, to me, those little coincidences.
I love so much that you had friends that loved on you, because that is so important. It’s so encouraging to just sit with somebody, and most times it probably doesn’t even matter what they say. Right? Just to be there to listen, to hug you.
It’s so true. You’re so right. “I don’t have cancer. I don’t know how I’m going to help people. I didn’t, I never lost a child.” Many people say that and I think it it’s very well intended. I think that it’s, “I don’t walk that path. I don’t know it, how can I tell them anything?”
But really, nobody even wants you to tell them anything. They just want your love, your hug, and you to listen to them. So, I am so happy that you had friends like that because, man, it really does make a difference. That’s why fellowship within one another is so important too.
God spoke through testimony
Especially as women, I feel like we get each other. There’s so much pressure in the world, these unrealistic expectations set for us and we don’t even know how that happens. We’re not in competition with each other.
We are here to encourage each other and I love so much that you said that and had that support. Because what a difficult walk.
Elizabeth Elliot, just to share with the listeners, her husband was killed overseas. They were missionaries and they went over to help to minister to people about Jesus. I think they were called the Auca people.
Lisa: I think they’re called a Waudoni is their name now that they use.
Kelly: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, absolutely. Her husband and four other missionaries were speared by men who did not want them around. They did not accept the word. I was actually just reading something that her husband could have drawn a pistol to defend himself. But he made a promise to them that he wouldn’t. He would not harm any of them, especially if they hadn’t accepted Jesus.
Elizabeth Elliot though, she also lost her second husband after he had passed. But I think it’s so amazing, and it shows such grace that she returned, I wanna say, a year later to minister to those same people who murdered her husband. Only God can give that kind of fierce forgiveness.
Lisa: She would go and live with the very people who had killed her husband and get to know them, understand what they were thinking, and why they killed her husband. Many would come to Christ through her, her witness, and her little girl.
We witness through our character how God transforms our heart
Kelly: Absolutely. And it just speaks volumes to how God can work through us. How we can be the light. Just like he’s working through you. He really is. Even just being here today and sharing a discussion and your story because it isn’t easy to be vulnerable.
Especially about something just so tragic, Lisa. I’m just so grateful to you for being here. I wanted to ask you, was there any verse that really carried you or even carries you now through grief that really speaks to you? I know you said the verse earlier, come to me all weary and heavy laden, and I’ll give you rest.
That’s a fantastic verse. Did that verse help you, or was there another verse that helped you through that?
God’s word is a living encouragement
Lisa: Yeah, there were a lot of verses that meant a lot to me. But I think one early in my grief that I probably never would’ve come across unless I had been reading through the Bible every day chapter by chapter. I found a verse in Deuteronomy 33:27, and it says, “The eternal God is your refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms.”
It was such a picture of God that while my world was shaking and imploding, God was steady and eternal. That he held us, and those eternal arms, those everlasting arms were carrying us and holding us when I felt like everything else had fallen apart.
I just clung to that.
I started signing my emails with it and writing it in thank-you notes. I just clung to that verse and that picture of God being our eternal refuge.
When we feel overwhelmed, we have God’s word to comfort us
Kelly: Oh, that is just beautiful. I will also put that in the show notes for the listeners to help them. Because I feel like sometimes when you’re feeling overwhelmed, you’re grasping at straws, and it’s hard to remember even what you did the day before. Especially whenever you have such a hurting heart.
But that is just beautiful. Thank you so much for that.
So I know you are a writer and an executive team member for the Compel team for Proverb 31 Ministries, but you also published a book. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about your book and what your book is about?
Because you really discuss a lot of this in the book, right?
Lisa’s book helps those suffering with shattering loss in many ways
The book is for that woman who finds herself navigating a life she didn’t expect, a life that she doesn’t want.
It can happen in a lot of ways. It can happen through a diagnosis, marriage, or even a business that implodes, and life looks different now. Even a relationship with somebody who’s living but has been cut off causes a lot of pain. Maybe the death of somebody you love.
There are many ways we can find ourselves in that place of shattering loss.
I remember wanting to know one person who was just a few steps ahead of me who could both assure me I would make it through and was flesh and bones. I knew God would be faithful. He’d said he would be faithful in the word, but I wanted to see it on flesh and bones lived out.
Life can be good again, Lisa helps you to walk the journey
Also somebody who could just take my hand and say, “this is the way. Let’s do this.”
So this book does not gloss over the heart. It’s called Life Can Be Good Again, because I remember wanting and worrying that I would never smile again, that I would just make the best of life that it was now, but I would never experience real joy. That kind of organic joy that bubbles up again.
The promise is that life can be good again, but we have to walk through the hard questions and hard emotions. So how do we do that?
Practices that we can do to find our footing and begin taking little steps will help us move forward in this life we didn’t expect.
Kelly: Oh, that’s so wonderful. See, I just, oh my goodness. I just love it so much! Your book is very encouraging. I definitely encourage our listeners to get it, for sure. You said you wanted somebody to help take your hand and see how. So now you are living this wonderful purpose of helping women by taking their hand, being somebody in the flesh.
I love that you’re giving back in that way. It just warms my heart so much. Thank you for doing what you do.
God will never give you second best
Suppose you had one takeaway from your experiences of knowing Jesus and your journey through grief with God through ups and downs. What would your takeaway be to a woman dealing with a similar struggle and pain?
Lisa: Something was impressed on me, probably not early in grief, but probably my second year of grief because I was still really struggling, still in a place of despair.
I mean that second year the fog of grief had lifted, and this hard reality had just settled in. I remember one day in my minivan saying, I don’t even know if I said it out loud, but saying something like, “I don’t like my life. This is not what I ordered.”
On the heels of that came this thought that while this was not what I had expected, it did not surprise God. He allowed it. It was not a Plan B, that it was a chapter two. Because God had allowed it, it had as much abundance, goodness, and joy as the chapter before.
I didn’t immediately feel better or immediately say, “oh, well, I’m all better now. Let me just move on.”
“I still had a lot of missing loneliness and grief to work through.”
But it shifted my perspective and helped me lean on the truth that God does not give us plan B. For so long I thought I was living out the leftovers of the life I wanted, that this was second best and first best was my first plan that was gone.
But God does not give us second best. He does not give us the leftovers. What he allows is chapter two. It’s never a plan B, which can shift our paradigm if we lean on that and say, “well then, by definition, God, if you’ve allowed it, there is goodness here. If you’ve allowed, there is joy and abundant life here, and I’m going to fight for it.”
Lean into God and hear Him speak to your heart
Kelly: That’s just so wonderful. Lisa, thank you so much. I love that you say lean into God because it’s hard. It’s hard, but we start to lean on him. I mean, it’s just a wonderful picture of really leaning on his strength.
He tells us, in our weakness, he is strong. So when we feel most weak, lean into him. I just love how real and raw you are about it. How you do not sugarcoat anything, and you say in my second year of grief. I bet even that statement is helping someone listening because like you said, it’s not a timestamp.
You can’t timestamp it. But yes, what a fantastic takeaway. What a wonderful way to embrace what happened and find that journey back to having hope and joy again. Thank you so much, Lisa.
Do you have any closing encouragements?
Lisa: No, but for the one who’s listening to this, just don’t believe the lie of your circumstances. I think our emotions and our circumstances will lie to us. While our emotions can tell us that we’re dealing with difficulty, they cannot predict our future. Only God can do that, and trust him with that.
Kelly: Yes, absolutely. Just wonderful. Thank you so, so much. I will put Lisa’s book in the show notes, a link to your website where we can find you, and absolutely will share the Bible verses you graciously shared with us today too, Lisa.
Lisa: Thank you for having me, great conversation. I appreciate you making space for this. This is a hard conversation for many, but I really appreciate it.
Kelly: Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for sharing your heart with us today, and I feel so honored to have you here. Thank you.
Lisa: Thank you
Bible Verses for Encouragement
Matthew 11:28, NKJV, “Come to Me all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
Deuteronomy 33:27, NKJV, “The eternal God is your refuge, And underneath are the everlasting arms; He will thrust out the enemy from before you, And will say, ‘Destroy!”
Resources for You
Lisa’s book Life Can Be Good Again helps women to put their lives back together after it falls apart.
In part 1 of this episode of the I Witness podcast, Jenny Leavitt shares her journey through faith when an unthinkable tragedy struck her family. The Leavitt family is no stranger to difficult times, and Jenny shares how God prepared her for her worst nightmare.
Kelly: Welcome to the I Witness Podcast. I’m your host, Kelly Jo Wilson, and this is the show for women who struggle to accept their worth but want to embrace their gifts and share their witness for Jesus. We have a great show today about tragedy that shakes faith. Our guest is Jenny Leavitt a pastor’s wife, mother, author, and follower of Jesus.
Jenny is amazed by God’s reach to rescue broken, hurting people, and has witnessed God’s faithfulness through shattering loss. Jenny’s passion is encouraging others to lean into Jesus during life’s ups and downs. Jenny lives in Florida with her husband of nearly 30 years, Myron, and her dog Molly, who thinks she’s a cat.
Welcome to the I Witness podcast, Jenny. I’m so happy to have you.
Jenny: I’m so happy to be here.
Kelly: Great, great. Today we want to talk through a little bit of your journey and your struggle with the tragedy that happened to your family. As I said, you can share whatever you feel comfortable sharing. So why don’t you let our listeners know a little bit more about you and your family?
Jenny: Well, I became a Christian when I was 15. I met my husband when I was 16, and we got married when I was 18, so very young.
Kelly: Wow, that’s wonderful.
Jenny: Both of us had parents who were married for a long time, but we had at least one parent that battled with some addictions.
So we carried some baggage into our marriage and then married young. So, obviously, there were some maturity issues that we had to work on together and grow together. Then, we both fell in love with Jesus in our late teens.
God has a way of changing life’s plans and testing faith
So, God has a way of reaching in and changing your life’s plans. And neither one of us really planned on being in the ministry when we were growing up, but God had some other plans. So, we’ve been in some form of ministry almost all of our adult lives. This is the third church he’s pastored that we’re pastoring right now.
Kelly: Wow, that’s wonderful.
Jenny: We’ve also assisted with youth ministry, for years and years back in our home church. That’s actually where we were, in our home church in Jacksonville, assisting with the children’s ministry at the time when the accident happened, back in 2015.
Kelly: So that’s pretty cool that you guys met whenever you were in high school and that you’re like high school sweethearts. You have been married for what about 30 years now? That’s great.
Jenny: We just celebrated our 29th anniversary this past Monday.
Kelly: Congratulations! Happy anniversary.
Jenny: Oh, thank you. Actually, he’s four years older than me, so I was a senior in high school. He was in the military when I met him. I was trying to do the math in my head.
Kelly: Oh, no worries. Yeah, no, he was 20-something. So that’s what we could say.
Jenny: Yeah. Yes.
Kelly: So that’s great, you guys are high school sweethearts celebrating your anniversary. You were into the ministry, which is funny because I agree with you, God definitely works in very mysterious, funny ways. So you had some struggles before the accident. You had some things that you had to fight through.
God prepares ahead of time
Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Talk about some of those major struggles that really shook that faith, shook your faith.
Jenny: Probably the first really big struggle was, I was only 22 years old married just a few years, and already had our two boys, but I got a phone call on a Friday afternoon. I had recently had our youngest Jacob in November of 97. Ever since then, I’d been having a lot of weird, symptoms that they kept trying to blame on postpartum issues, but it was like weird things. One pupil would dilate while the other would stay large, and then they would flip.
So it was like bizarre symptoms. It wasn’t your normal postpartum symptoms. And I never had anything like that with my oldest son anyway. So anyway, finally, after I started passing out and what really got them looking was I got jaundiced, and that’s when they really started taking me seriously.
But I was still only 22 when I got a call on that Friday afternoon. The doctor, the specialist, said, “I hate to tell you this over the phone, but timing is critical. So, I have to tell you over the phone that the test came back, and it’s non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.”
I was 22, totally naive. I said, “I don’t even know what that is.”
He said, “It’s cancer, and it is in every lymph node in your chest. Your chest is full of it.”
He felt pretty confident that they thought the tumor in my pancreas was the non-Hodgkins lymphoma metastasizing down to my pancreas.
Faith in God was tested and rocked
I was only 22 and I think that was probably the first time that, my faith was really tested and rocked.
I gave my life to Christ when I was 15 and thank God that he led me into a good Bible-believing church. At that time, I didn’t realize it, but God was putting some foundational truths in me that he knew I would need.
Like for instance, when I became a believer. I think that one reason God gave me the scripture I’m about to share as a new believer was partly because of my upbringing. My parents were together, but it was rough. One of the scriptures that in those first years before cancer really just was like an anchor for me was where Jesus said, “I’ll never leave you. I’ll never forsake you.”
As much as I loved that scripture, I didn’t realize how much I needed that anchor until I went through cancer.
There were some times, I mean, my husband, God bless him, he was there as much as possible, and he has continued to be throughout the years as I go back for treatments and cancer scares and all kinds of stuff, he’s continued to be there, but the one constant through it all has been that Jesus has always been there.
Jesus never left me
He’s never left me, never forsaken me. Looking back, it seems through all these different seasons of my life and things we’ve gone through, there was always a verse that God was speaking to my heart ahead of time. I didn’t even know why he was giving me that one to focus on, but he’s just so good and so faithful like that to prepare us even when we don’t know. That’s what he’s doing, giving us that little kernel of truth to hold onto.
Fear grips faith
Kelly: For sure. That had to be scary, especially young, 22, and a new mom, you’re just trying to navigate that with two, two young boys. But, then getting the call. I can totally understand how it can resonate there with you and I love that you had that to carry with you. Personally, I had a similar, similar scare too. I got the call too, and I had to have surgery.
It was cervical cancer, though. But a similar thing. The fear that grips you is so inexplainable because it’s more so for everyone else, I felt like. Did you feel like that? Like you look at your boys and your husband, and you’re like, “I can’t imagine. I have to be here for them.”
I think the scariest part for me was the PET scan. That was probably the scariest part for me. Because going into that, it’s like they know it’s there. But it may be a little bit different for you just because of the nature and type you had.
But for me, it was like, “Okay, is it everywhere, or is it just in this one spot?”
I don’t want to focus too much on that, but I can understand a little bit of your fear. So what a great verse to carry you through.
Faith in God is shaken
Jenny: That fear was so … I mean, I totally agree with you. I had settled it with Christ, so I felt confident that if God chose to take me home, I knew I would make heaven my home. My fear was my boys. I can’t tell you how many times I would be like, “God. We have a three-year-old and a baby. How is Myron going to do this?”
I know he’s a tough man and everything, but that’s a lot. And that’s a big part of my testimony I’ve shared many, many times over the years with other moms. I remember one night in the throes of all the treatments. I had six months of chemo treatments and 56 radiation treatments.
So somewhere in the middle of all that, in the middle of the night, I couldn’t sleep. My mind was just whirling with all that fear over the boys, “What’s gonna happen to them if I die?”
I found out later that I had stage four and I didn’t know that at the time. I just knew that the prognosis wasn’t very good. I just remember I went out in the living room in the middle of the night and I said, “God, I am not leaving until I get some peace from you about our boys. I can’t keep living in this fear. I just can’t.”
Peace surpasses all understanding
I don’t know, it was probably an hour, hour and a half later that I just kept wrestling God about that and just praying. There is no other way to describe it, which the Bible actually says that peace that passes all understanding. You can’t describe it.
It was like this peace just settled on me. God spoke that, that quiet, still voice that he does, and he said, “They’re mine. I love them even more than you do. I’m gonna take care of them.”
There was such a peace that just settled over me that I mean, I kid you not even as they were growing up, obviously, I survived cancer. But, still, as they were growing up, there were times when I probably should have been scared at some of the things they were doing and places they were going. But that peace carried with me.
Wrestling with God
I wrestled with God about that and he gave me that peace and that stayed with me. It was a staying factor. Actually the night of the accident, that was crucial in my receiving the news about our boys. That was actually a reference point that I have no doubt that he’s the one who brought that back to my memory.
Kelly: I’m sure. That is intense. That peace is very difficult to describe unless you have experienced it. It’s like when you should be writhing, you’re still. It’s only him that can really do that. Right?
Jenny: Mm-hmm.
Kelly: I think it’s interesting, like you said, how he prepares you with the verse before going through the actual thing you’re gonna go through. So you get through cancer, get through all of that.
So having that peace, and him telling you they’re mine, and you know he will hold them in his hands. Why don’t you tell me what happened later? So, in a way, that was preparing you for the next thing, right? The accident. Like I said, you don’t have to go into a ton of detail, but what happened with the accident. How did you handle that?
Jenny’s faith in God is tested even more
Jenny: In the interim. Because I’ve been cancer free since November 1998.
Kelly: Oh, praise Jesus!
Jenny: Yes. The accident happened in August 2015. So in that interim of, what is that, like 17 years or so, another verse that, when I look back in my life, it’s the verse that held those years together.
A lot of people know it. It’s the Romans 8:28, how God works all things together for the good of those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
Because so many times over those years, we saw how. Even on this side of eternity, we may never understand exactly why I had to go through cancer. But we’ve seen how God has used it for good.
Steadfast faith, even when they lost everything
There have been so many times that a coworker, somebody from the church, our pastor, or somebody will say, “Hey, I just met so-and-so and they just found out they have cancer. Would you guys mind talking to them?” Or, “Hey, I know so-and-so and his wife, and it’s not looking very good. Can both of you talk to them? Because I think the husband could benefit from Myron talking to them too.”
Times like that, just seeing God work good out of it. There was also an interim time when my husband broke his back. I mean, horribly. He’s had two back surgeries since then.
At that time, my husband, who’s a very hard worker and has one of the strongest work ethics I know, was sent home because he wasn’t allowed to work for almost a year and a half.
We lost everything.
We had two houses, we had cars, and we lost everything. So in that interim, we even saw God work those things for good because, during that time of being homeless, we could look back and draw from the times that God brought us through cancer.
My husband would even say, “God brought us through that. He’s gonna bring us through this.”
We could look back and use that as a reference point. So even those things in our life, that scripture, I feel like, was the overall theme for that time. Which led us up to the greatest time of trial in our lives.
A mother’s worst nightmare
So on Saturday, August 29th, 2015, our whole family had been volunteering at our church in Jacksonville. My husband and I worked with the youth, and they were doing a special event for the community. My husband and I were involved and our oldest son was actually in the event.
Our youngest son, Jacob, it was his first time being in the lights and sound ministry. He was so excited.
When you volunteer like that, you’re the first ones there and you’re the last ones to leave. So we had just gotten home, but it was super late. It was almost midnight we got a call from our pastor’s wife, because they drove home a similar way from us, asking us if we knew where the boys were.
When you’re faced with something like that, even with a cancer diagnosis, sometimes that shock and numbness can be like, “no, that happens to other people. That doesn’t happen to me. That doesn’t happen to us.”
So to make a long story short, our boys were in our oldest son’s Ford Escape, and they were hit by a drunk driver.
Our youngest son, Jacob, was 17 at the time, Caleb was 20, Jacob was 17. Jacob died on the scene and Caleb almost died.
A miracle emerged from the devastation
To this day, I’m so grateful for the first responders who were there. It was a dark, dreary night, like drizzling rain out in the middle of the country, so it was not a well-lit intersection.
Without them getting there quickly and getting them in, we would’ve lost him too. It was still touch and go with him for at least a couple of weeks. He was in a coma for eight or nine days. He, he’s had so many surgeries that we have to start with the top of his head and work down to the bottom of his feet to remember everything wrong.
He’s a miracle. When people see him now they can’t believe it because he just barely has a limp when he walks. He’s got so much titanium in him, it’s amazing. He came home in a wheelchair and C-collar and is walking today.
God’s faithfulness all along
All those lessons we learned kind of converged all in that timeframe, which was instrumental in how we were able to heal and process. Looking back on our lives, seeing God’s hand of faithfulness, and how he prepared us even when we didn’t know he was preparing us. All those lessons that we learned that was because he knew what was coming.
He had placed people in our lives … one of our dear friends in the fellowship of churches that we’re in, he’s a mentor, almost like a grandfather to us.
Our pastor’s pastor is in his eighties, and he and his wife lost their daughter when she was 15, like 40 years ago. So, we knew that about him. He talks about it frequently when he’s preaching. So things like that God had put into our life, and we didn’t realize the significance.
Until you’re going through that, and even then, I’m condensing months, even years of healing after the accident. Things that God helped us work through. Deep wounds that he had to heal.
These lessons and the people God had placed in our lives were instrumental in that healing.
Healing through faith and surrendering to God
Those verses that I shared with you already, they came back around where we were like, “Okay, all right. You said you would never leave us. You said that you’re gonna work all things for good, all things God. So you’re not a liar. If you said you’re gonna work ’em all for good, we don’t see it right now, but somehow you’re gonna bring some good out of this somehow because you’re a man of your word. You’re faithful. You’ve proven to us that you’re faithful in our times of homelessness, our facing cancer. In me lifting the boys up to you.”
Earlier, when I told you that that was going to be, I didn’t realize how much me wrestling with God about that and finally surrendering and getting that peace.
The night of the accident, when Myron got that phone call in our house, he went to the accident scene. He didn’t tell me this until a lot later, but he was really in the back of his mind thinking, if it is the boys, I don’t really want her to be there until I know what to expect.
So even in the middle of that, he was trying to shield me just in case.
What he did when he found out that it was our boys is he sent one of my good friends who’s also our assistant pastor’s wife, out to our house to pick me up and take me.
In that timeframe, when I knew she was about 20 minutes away, I was just pacing back and forth in the kitchen and in the dining room. Just pacing and trying to pray, and at that point, all we knew was that it was our boys.
The unknown strangled her until she had enough
We didn’t know anything about their status. I was praying, and I couldn’t wrap my mind around it. I couldn’t get focused.
Finally, I still remember, I stopped by the dining room table and said, “God, you know what. Enough! If you told me all those years ago that they were your boys and that you loved them even more than I do, then I’m gonna have to take you at your word that you still love them more than I do, which can’t fathom, but okay. And so God, I’m choosing, I’m gonna choose right now to trust you. I’m just going to put it back in your hands that even if it’s our boys, I’m going to trust you that you said you love them even more than I do.”
And once again, that peace came over me where I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt. Even all these seven years later, I can still feel that peace when I talk about that time because God knew I needed that anchor. He knew that Jacob was already gone.
Faith in the little things
I didn’t know that, but he knew that and knew I would need that anchor. So, once again, it was just those little times, those little nuggets. Sometimes I have told people when I’m talking to him, don’t discredit those little times that God plants those seeds in your life. Hold on to him with everything you’ve got because you don’t know why he’s putting that there.
Our God is so good.
I think there are so multiple reasons He does it. It can be to heal past wounds, past insecurities, and areas where we don’t feel like we deserve his love or his care. But it can also be for something in the future he knows that’s coming that we don’t know.
Bible Verses for Encouragement
Hebrews 13:5, NKJV “Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
Philippians 4:7, NKJV “and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.”
Romans 8:28, NKJV “And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.”
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It’s not always apparent when God chooses to prune things from your life.
Sometimes He needs to teach you something in ways you don’t expect until you’ve overcome the struggle. Other times He needs to remove something so you can grow stronger in your faith.
A few years ago, I wanted a garden. So, we took a family trip to Home Depot and bought loads of flowers. Before we were about to checkout, I saw grapevines on sale, so I bought them.
I thought it would be fun to grow my own grapes, farmhouse-ish style.
I had no idea what I was doing.
The instructions said to give lots of water, till the soil, and prune the branches. I thought I could be munching some grapes toward the end of Summer. But I had to wait 3 years!
Nevertheless, each year I watered, tilled, pruned, and waited. The waiting part was the hardest. Especially when the grapes looked so tasty.
The time finally came to enjoy the fruit, and you know what?
We sold our house that year!
I didn’t even get the chance to eat them because God had a different plan for us.
We’d searched for a new home for years, and He blessed us the year the grapes were ready. I did all that work for someone else to enjoy.
Isn’t that a typical example of how God works in His own timing?
We might pray for something and be faithful, but God blesses us in His time and His way.
Those grapes would’ve tasted terrible if I had eaten them too early. But I stayed with it, faithfully pruning.
The same way we prune grapevines, God is pruning us.
Sometimes, He prunes us for a long time before we can even appreciate His blessings.
The pruning isn’t easy. In fact, we may not realize the struggle we’re going through is actually a good thing coming from God and not the world.
“I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in him. I will trust.”
David declares how God has protected him, especially in difficult times. But he starts by first putting his trust in God.
Trust is something we struggle with. I know I certainly do. But it’s a necessary first step to embrace God, especially during times of pruning. Pruning is uncomfortable, and we must lean on Him through the changes.
But, we try to figure things out for ourselves and doubt our worth, so we don’t believe He’s talking to us in our life. His voice is overcome by the noise of our own guilt or shame.
It takes a LOT of submissions to fully accept His path.
Sometimes we unintentionally get in His way.
But it usually takes complete surrender for us to be open to what He’s doing.
God is pruning you to help your spiritual growth.
Here are 4 ways to reflect on how God is pruning you
1. Are you under pressure right now?
For example, is it a difficult time at work? Are you burning out at home? Usually, there’s pressure on you that tests your faith. But pressure helps you to see your strengths and weaknesses.
Most importantly, it guides you to look to God for help. Being faithful during stressful times has big rewards. It’s the pressure that brings out the character in you.
2. What temptations do you struggle with?
That doesn’t mean just the most obvious big ones, such as adultery or addictions. Instead, look into the more subtle temptations like toxic thinking about yourself, selfishness, anger, and idolatry. Look at what you are tempted to do, say, or think. Look at the situations you’re put into. Is God trying to show you something? Are you running away from Him or toward Him?
3. Who are your helpers?
Look for people in your life that are there for you during difficult times. Reflect on your relationship with them. Is it one-sided? God will bring people to you that can provide assistance through a hard time.
However, He can also show you the true colors of people you thought were reliable. They could be those you least expect. You will know the good ones by their fruits … if they consistently give you love, kindness, and longsuffering, they are probably genuine.
On the other hand, if they want you to be something else rather than accept you for who you are, God may be trying to remove them from your life.
When I first learned that I had cancer, the people I thought would be in my corner were surprisingly absent. But God also blessed me with many genuine people I didn’t expect would be my best supporters.
4. What conflict are you going through right now?
What obstacles are you trying to overcome? Something is occurring that you don’t want to change. But change may be what God needs from you. So take a step back and look at both sides of the conflict. What part lines up with God’s character?
I recommend studying the story of Joseph in the Bible (Genesis 37). Joseph was blessed with visions God gave him, but that gift almost cost him his life. His brothers were so jealous of him they threw him in a pit only for him to be taken into slavery. Ultimately, everything God allowed to happen to Joseph ended in blessing, not only to him and his family but the entire nation of Israel.
I hope these tips help you endure this time.
God’s pruning is uncomfortable for us but necessary for what He needs. Change is never easy when we can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. But God’s path is always the best one. So keep praying and spending time with Him to hear His voice in your life.
You are a strong, capable individual that can do anything with God’s help.
Please comment with one way you’ve been blessed by God’s pruning in your life. I’d love to hear your story.
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